Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001
Reply-To: trollope-l@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [trollope-l] Gold mining
Trollope's description of the gold fields is probably based on his visit there in 1871. He describes 'Nobble' and 'Ahalala', which the Oxford Reader's Companion to Trollope identifies with Grenfell and Currajong. My very small scale map of Australia does not show either of these places, but they are probably north of Wagga Wagga and south of Forbes and Bathurst. The nearest that I have been to this region is the Blue Mountains, which certainly showed no sign of gold mining. Much as I would like to, I don't think that I shall be in a position to extend my exploration of the fens to the area on the other side of the Blue Mountains! In a posting last Sunday Michael [redcedar@orangemail.com.au] referred to his visit some decades ago to 'Caldigate country'. Can he identify the precise location of either of the above two places?
In chapter VIII of the section of Australia and New Zealand dealing with New South Wales, Trollope describes the Australian miner, and says 'The Australian miner when he is in work never drinks, - and seems to feel a pride in his courtesy.' Clearly he must have conceived Mick Maggott and Dick Shand as exceptions. He first went to Gullgong, but when he found that the 'rush' there was over, he moved on to Currajong, about 150 miles away, where a new rush had started. He found that Currajong was 'new, and a more wretched spot I never saw in my life'.
Incidentally, I wonder why John Caldigate and Dick Shand went to 'Nobble' and 'Ahalala' through Melbourne, rather than through Sydney and over the Blue Mountains, which seems the more obvious route to the gold fields.
If list members are interested in seeing some pictures of gold mining and gold miners of the 1870s, I would recommend the New South Wales Government's web site at http://www.minerals.nsw.gov.au/photos/gold_6.htm, which gives some splendid photographs of everything that Trollope wrote about. There are in fact nine pages of photographs, and the URL will take you to the sixth page, which I think shows what 'The Old Stick-in-the Mud' might have looked like. All the other pages are also repay examination.
Regards, Howard
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001
Reply-To: trollope-l@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [trollope-l] Gold mining
Howard Merkin wrote in part:
"Trollope's description of the gold fields is probably based on his visit there in 1871. He describes 'Nobble' and 'Ahalala', which the Oxford Reader's Companion to Trollope identifies with Grenfell and Currajong. My very small scale map of Australia does not show either of these places, but they are probably north of Wagga Wagga and south of Forbes and Bathurst. The nearest that I have been to this region is the Blue Mountains, which certainly showed no sign of gold mining. Much as I would like to, I don't think that I shall be in a position to extend my exploration of the fens to the area on the other side of the Blue Mountains! In a posting last Sunday Michael [redcedar@orangemail.com.au] referred to his visit some decades ago to 'Caldigate country'. Can he identify the precise location of either of the above two places?"
I was unaware of the Oxford Readers' Companion reference to Grenfell and
Currajong, as I have only the Penguin Companion (sniffle!) Coincidentally, in an exchange of posts on-list with Teresa Ransome last September, I wrote
at the time:
Currawong sits in the forementioned triangle, but Grenfell is well outside. So, it is nice to
know that the Oxford RC people agree with me. Amongst the many small pieces of evidence
that gave me a measure of comfort in my original analysis was the fact that Trollope's "Nobble"
sounds like a variant of "Nubba" - a small village just out of Currawong.
Also in my earlier note to Teresa, I wrote:
So, Howard, is this a case of great minds think alike, or is it the flip side? Michael
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 This is to thank Howard for finding the appropriate website with
pictures of gold-mining in New South Wales. I am struck by
how accurately Mosley's picture of the rickety-erections are;
he also got the sombreness of the places right. These do not
look like places where people are enjoying themselves with
alcoholic beverages, but places where they are intently
serious about the object of making money. They do look
grim. On the other hand, when the lights are out and
people go to sleep, even in exhaustion after hours of work
in a place where the "ordinary rules" of life are not
visibly enforced by social activities, one can see extra-
marital relationships springing up and sticking very
easily.
Actually I wonder if there are websites with pictures of
typical ships of the period. It would be interesting to
see if the pictures of these by Mosley are as accurate.
It would be interesting to match up Trollope's descriptions
of life aboard such ships (not only in this novel but in
the travel books and short stories) against the information
provided by such sites.
Ellen Moody
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 Michael, I think that it's not so much a case of great minds thinking alike
as of lesser minds having a greater recall of content than of source! Thank you for locating Grenfell, and probably Currajong more precisely. I
have made some research into the site at
http://www..lpi.nsw.gov.au/maps/pmap/mrsid/ which gives access to a
wonderful collection of parish maps covering the period from the 1890s to
the 1930s. There are two Grenfells, in different districts, and about five
Currajongs! I have looked at the most likely Grenfell, which for 1891 has a
Main Street, Camp Street and a Middle Street, and gives the names of the
occupiers or owners of each property. Since Trollope is unlikely to have had
access to such a map, there does not seem much point in researching further,
If one was going to write a novel about such a town, this map would form an
excellent basis for writing a convincing background. Imagine writing about
one's characters calling at Hall & Allen's premises at 7 & 8 Main Street!
I would suggest, Michael, that you shouldn't feel too sad at not owning the
Oxford Reader's Companion to Trollope. While it contains a host of
interesting material, it has too many long-winded academic articles about
the novels, and is really not a patch on Mullen and Munson in the Penguin
Companion. I also prefer the Gerroulds' A Guide to Trollope when it comes
to identifying the novel in which a character or place appears.
Nevertheless, The Oxford Companion is a very useful third port of call. It
did give an indication of the likely whereabouts of Nobble and Ahalala.
Regards, Howard
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 I wonder how Trollope would have got Mrs Smith into such a powerful position
if he had not used the class system on the boat. At times Trollope seems to
imply that John Caldigate and Mrs Smith are the only intelligent and
thoughtful people, who can read and converse, amongst all the second class
ticket holders.
I like the way her appearance changes during the voyage and she appears to
better advantage, gradually improving her image, as she sees the opportunity
that John Caldigate offers. At least, this is how I read her, as a superb
actress, able to sustain a character and wonderfully in charge of her life.
She reminds me of Miss Gwilt in Collins' Armadale.
Thanks very much for all the gold mine information. I don't know of any
other Victorian novelist who travelled as far as Trollope. He must have
been very tough. Something of that self congratulation on survival comes
through in the narrative of the two Englishmen, especially when they are
shown able to walk much further and with more stamina than their local
guide.
Angela
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 I second Angela's thanks to Howard and Michael for the
Australia gold-mining info and especially the link. My
husband will love seeing the pictures too! In the
western U.S. we do not have many historical sites to
view, no Colonial ruins, no civil war sites, we do
have a few abandoned gold mines though.
One thing that struck me when Caldigate and Shand
first arrived in gold-mining country was the mud, the
wet weather. I always picture Australia as coastal
country with the entire interior
sheep-ranching/outback country. I forget that because
it is so large it must have other climates. (I should
have known about the rain from watching the recent
episode of Survivors.)
As to why our hopeful, would-be miners travelled out
from Melbourne rather than continuing to Sydney by
boat, I think one of them made reference to cost. I
don't know how it works geographically but it seems
their rather miserable three day land journey might
have been less expensive than the other route. They
did though send their heavy luggage on through Sydney.
On the surface this seems a waste, to have to journey
to Sydney later to collect it. But practically
speaking, they could not very well cart it all around
with them when they didn't even know where they would
end up.
Thanks to Ellen for the illustrations. I can easily
picture the frontispiece. Perhaps too, one of the
photos at the New South Wales site will be very
similiar.
On a side note, I have seen on exhibit some Australian
gold nuggets, they are gorgeous! Australian gold is
much brighter and lovelier in color than our western
U.S. gold. Possibly this is because it is purer, I
don't know.
Hello all
Happy Easter, and many thanks to Howard for finding all the wonderful
pictures of Australian gold mining. I especially liked the old
photograph of the man holding the largest nugget ever found, which
appeared to be almost as big as him!
Judy Geater
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 I am another fan of Mrs. Smith (at least at this
point). She has made some mistakes though. I think it
was a foolish on her part to be so aloof and
snooty-seeming to the other passengers on the ship.
Sure I can see where it could be incredibly boring to
converse with some, probably most of them, but still,
a pleasant word now and again would make things much
more pleasant. And there were a few women who tried to
befriend her. If nothing else, they might have made
good contacts in port for job-hunting, etc.
Now, what I didn't like about her was how she sort of
tricked John into considering them engaged. Yes, he
should have known better, and indeed, it seems he did,
but still, it just didn't seem quite cricket on her
part.
Dagny
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 16:40:08 +0100
Reply-To: trollope-l@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [trollope-l] SS Great Britain
Ellen wondered whether there were any interesting web sites dealing with the
types of ship that John Caldigate, Dick Shand and Euphemia Smith travelled
out on to Australia. I had to regard this as a challenge. My researches, employing Google, did not prove very fruitful until I looked
at Mullen's biography of AT, and learned that he and Rose went out to
Australia in 1871 on the SS Great Britain. This is a ship with a marvellous
history. When she was built in Bristol in 1843 by Isambard Kingdom Brunel,
the great Victorian engineer, she was the first propeller driven iron ship.
After a few voyages to New York, carrying immigrants, she grounded off
Northern Ireland in 1846, and was not salvaged until 1847. In 1852 she
commenced sailings between Liverpool and Australia. She then completed 32
round trips to Australia, before being laid up in 1876. She was sold in
1882, her engines were removed, and she was converted into a three-masted
sailing ship. In 1886 she became a coal and wool hulk in the Falklands until
1937, when she was beached there.
In 1970 she was refloated, and towed on pontoons to the dock in Bristol
where she was built. Over the past thirty years she has been completely
restored, and is open to the public. I visited it about 10 years ago, when
the restoration of the interior was not far advanced. I would now like to
visit it again when I go down to the West Country later in the year. The web
site at http://www.ss-great-britain.com/ gives some photographs of it in its
current condition, but these are only overall views, and do not give much
indication of what conditions were like for passengers. However, another
site, http://www.theshipslist.com/pictures/Greatbritain.htm, gives a drawing
of her in six-masted configuration, a superb poster giving details of the
fares in 1873, and, at last, a drawing by a passenger, showing life on board
in 1863. It is not clear whether this shows the first or second class
sections, but since the passenger worked in Melbourne as a silk-merchant, it
is likely that it is the first class. There are no steamer chairs, or any
concessions to comfort, apart from an ample space to promenade. The fare
list goes from 70 Guineas for the After Saloon poop deck down to Steerage at
15 Guineas, with children under 12 at half price, and infants under 12
months free. The passengers are promised every possible convenience,
including Ladies' Boudoirs, Baths, etc., and 'her noble passenger decks,
lighted at intervals by sideports, offer unrivalled accommodation for all
classes'.
We know that Anthony and Rose Trollope sailed in May 1971, so that they must
have travelled on voyage no. 37, which took 64 days, and carried 153 crew
and 391 passengers. Someone has compiled an alphabetical list of the
surnames of all the passengers on all of the trips, and sure enough, between
Tristread and Tromencie, we find Trollope! No indication is given of the
fame of any of the passengers, since the list appears to have been prepared
for the use of people who want to determine whether their ancestors
travelled on the ship as immigrants.
There is probably a great deal more to be learned from the web, but the only
further picture that I have been able to find is a picture on a family visit
web site http://www.educate.co.uk/ssgb2.htm of the recently refitted first
class saloon. Unfortunately, the only item that appears clearly is the
piano.
We know that Trollope went again to Australia in 1875, and did not write
John Caldigate until 1879, but he travelled on his own, changing ships at
various points, so it seems probable that it was his journey on the SS Great
Britain that he drew on for the shipboard episodes in the novel.
I will now pass the hunt on to other list members to see whether further
pictures or accounts can be found.
Regards, Howard
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 Hello all
Many thanks to Howard for all the fascinating information about the
SS Great Britain and the great links.
For some strange reason, when I clicked on the link you gave for the
historic pictures, it said the page did not exist.
However, when I went to the home page for the same site,
www.theshipslist.com
I was able to click on a link to the pictures with no problem.
It looks as if this site will be a wonderful one to explore in
greater detail. Thanks again.
Judy Geater
To Trollope-l
April 17, 2001
Re: John Caldigate, Chs 7-12: Of ships & housemaids without brooms I too went over to look at the site for the SS Great Britain.
It reveals a good deal about Victorian society well beyond
emigration. How ironic that it exists to help individuals
make genealogical tables. The history of ships
reveals all sorts of things about the
societies they serve: they have sufficient individuation
to keep a character, yet they cross so many barriers
physically and otherwise that they are iron microcosms.
I wondered why the voyage was taking so long: it's
interesting to see that the ship the Trollopes travelled
on went on was first a "propeller driven iron ship" and
then was converted to a "three-masted sailing ship.
Among the "fifteen amazing facts" offered to the visitor
which include all sorts of boasts and statistics,
this was striking:
It is repeatedly said that people who run businesses on
the Net don't turn a profit Amazon.com is said to run
continual losses. Software companies go out of business
repeatedly. Yet without a doubt the World Wide
Web is among the most important innovations of our
era. One can repeat this statistic of loss -- of no
profit -- for hospitals, schools, so many of our institutions
and things we are most proud of in our culture.
I do enjoy reading about ships. One of the most
readable books about Darwin's voyage round
the world in the Beagle is by Keith Stuart Thompson:
The History of Darwin's Ship. It tells you about
far more than the individual Darwin who rode her
for one of her many voyages.
Actually only 2 chapters of this week's 6 take place
on board ship. Those of us who have posted have
said much that may be sensibly said of this opening
experience. As Sig and a few others have commented,
Trollope plants many hints that Mrs Smith is not
the woman an upper class English gentleman wants for
his wife. He makes the taboo about unchastity explicit
at one point:
Language like "cleaner, sweeter holier than himself" marks
the books as not only Victorian but written by a male
of the gentry class for an ideal construct of its females.
We are expected to assume all right-minded or good
women want to socialise with other gentry women. Mrs
Smith doesn't. They bore and irritate her. She sees
them as uncharitable hypocrites. Which they are.
At the same time she is made interesting. She is a
rare Trollopian woman for having literary tastes and
engaging in a literary conversation. Her witty
dialogue with Caldigate over novels is meant to
amuse. Michael Sadleir who was among the
first to identify the Northanger novels in Jane
Austen's NA as real books, find and describe
them thoroughly, wrote a essay on "The Caldigate Novels"
for TLS in which he speculated on the novelists alluded to:
they include Trollope himself (as Thompson whose _Four
Marquises_ gives away its ending from the first chapter) ,
Oliphant, George Eliot (who writes novels filled with
"hard work" which are "very thoughtful"), Rhoda
Broughton. According to N John Hall in the Oxford
edition of John Caldigate, William Coxe is
Wilkie Collins; Lock Picked at Last, The Two
Destinies.
The likening of Mrs Smith to the housemaid who
is not allowed to have followers while her mistress
is works to make her sympathetic. And it is
supposed to. The remark about her "present
outward woman" refers to her worn older
clothes: these are the equivalent of the
housemaid's broom (Ch 6, p. 39). They mark her as someone
who is not acceptable for men to follow; who
herself, given her class and needs (a job
in service in a lady's house), ought not to
allow herself a boyfriend (as we would say).
Trollope's narrator compares Miss
Green's freedom to the disapproval and distrust
all display towards Mrs Smith in words which
suggest how unfair the treatment of Mrs Smith
is. Here he says of Mrs Smith that she is "brave
enough to set opposition at defiance" (Ch 7, p. 51).
When she says "a woman has to show a little
spirit or she will be trodden absolutely into the
dirt" she recalls Miss Viner of "Journey to
Panama" -- and many of Trollope's more socially
acceptable heroines, from Lady Glen to
Violet Effingham.
Mrs Smith recalls Mrs Hurtle -- without having
Mrs Hurtle's violence. She is presented as having
much courage, as sincere in her love for John
Caldigate. Her manipulations of Caldigate
work because he allows them to, and she gives him
a full chance to get away from her. We get as close
to a downright love scene where the couple is supposed
to end up in bed as we ever do in Trollope when
Caldigate comes to visit her in Sydney (Ch 12,
pp. 89-991). She is as capable and daring
as Caldigate himself, as self-contained.
Still throughout this opening Trollope's narrator makes it
clear that Caldigate is being unwise in allowing
himself to be so caught; his sympathies are such
that he doesn't really regard Mrs Smith as "one
of us" or "his kind". Thus although he repeats
the idea that it is "unmanly" of the Captain to
badmouth "a forlorn woman", he doesn't care:
his concern is first for the gentleman to keep
himself in his class, not for the woman who
needs someone to be a partner and yearns
for loving companionship.
Beyond that the more casual off-the-cuff remark
about Mrs Smith's behavior gives away Trollope's
instinctive adhesion to safety within his class
where there is civility, comfort, behavior that
is dependable and provides safety. Take this
individual wariness towards the non-conformist: "She is
good-looking, clever, well-educated, and would be
well-mannered were it not that she bristles up against
the ill-usage of the world too roughly" (Ch 6, p. 42).
It's okay to bristle up some, but not too baldly
or aggressively. Not because the world does
not ill-use people, but because to come out
too strongly against it is to endanger your
position with these very ill-users. Again the narrator
says "The woman herself had not only been able
but had been foolish enough to show that despite
her gown she considered herself superior to them
all" (Ch 7, p. 46). It's often said that Dickens
feared the mob; Trollope does too,
but in more subtle ways. One can make distinctions
about merely obeying outwardly the conventions
and keeping one's view of the world free of cant,
but behavior is after all how we get what we want.
I imagine Trollope enjoyed travelling immensely
because it did free him for the space and time that he
was aboard a ship. He liked living in the liminal
when it was allowed him.
Cheers to all, Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 At this point in our reading of John Caldigate I don't particularly
dislike Mrs. Smith. She is charming, affable, and intelligent. All she
does on the ship is stroll about with John, and that's no crime. But
toward the end of the current reading assignmnet, we learn that she has
been on the Australian stage under the name of "Mademoiselle Cettini.."
John meets her in Sydney and wants to know if "Cettini" is her father's
name. She puts him off with no answer at all.
But supposing that "Cettini" was really her father's name? Now we have
an Italian girl attempting to squeeze her way into an English
upper-class family. And most of you will recall that we had something
very similar in Is He Popenjoy?. The English had two views toward
Italy. It was a great place to visit and even rent a villa. But one
should go no further, or else one might have to deal with the Italians.
And everyone knows that they are swarthy, their names end in vowels. and
accordingly they are not to be trusted. The dark Mediterranean type
does not make good spouse material for a fair English person, as we have
seen over and over again in The Prime Minister, Is He Popenjoy?, and
The Eustace Diamonds. Therefore, if Mrs. Smith is really Miss
Cettini, John should beware of her, mainly because her name ends with a
vowel.
Sig
Subject: [trollope-l] Mrs. Smith and the other ship passengers
Sig, yes, indeed, the English have to beware the
swarthy Italians. And how about the family in the
Barset stories that lived in Italy. It's dreadful, I
have forgotten their names. The man was a churchman
and went to Italy for his health and remained for
years. Their poor daughter had an incredibly bad
experience marrying an Italian.
But to return to the voyage out--I really got a kick
out of the upper class ladies jealousy of John's
attention to Mrs. Smith. One of them went so far as to
say that they should do something to "save" him. And
indeed one of them did attempt to warn him. And they
didn't even know! :-)
Dagny
Re: John Caldigate, Chs 8-12: Gold Mining in Australia
Howard and Michael's onlist conversation has made me
think how interesting it would be to read Trollope's travel
book about Australia. Of course it's preferable to go
to Australia -- had we world enough, and time, which,
as Benjamin Franklin told us long ago, is money. Saul
Bellow says the poor boy's way of travelling is through
books. The Oxford Companion has some
good maps of where Trollope travelled. They are
detailed enough to recognize some of the places
named in our chapters -- or their equivalents (Wagga
Wagga, Gulgong, Grenfell. For those who know very
little about Australia's geography -- which includes
me -- the University of Queensland Press edition
of Trollope's Australia edited by P. D. Edwards
and R. B. Royce has fuller maps which relate
places to one another. It seems people lived along
a southeast coast: Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra
follow each other up the coast. The places Trollope
names are inland in New South Wales going westerly.
These four chapters continue Trollope's dramatization
of which individuals survive when the structures of
ordinary society melt away from us. Who comes
out on top? Who is a follower. We see that Mick
Maggott has it in him to be a leader -- if only he
can keep himself from yielding to the delicious
oblivion offered by alcohol. Trollope's presentation
of Mick's personality (his words, acts) suggests
an inferiority complex: Mick lives down to his
opinion of himself because it's easier. There is
a beautiful humility about the man -- as well
as the strength of an ox. Trollope presents Mick
with more sympathy than he does Dick Shand.
The descriptions of these early outposts of
civilized life, these places where money is to
be wrested from the land at great personal
sacrifice and risk should be of interest to
people who live in the US too. The desolation,
disorder, make-shift and rough nature of
life in New South Wales is a variant on the
western US at the turn of the 19th century.
Judy asked if we can think of novels where people
are shown at work in offices or factories. There
is a slew of US novels written at the turn of the
century which do this; they are sometimes called "American
(literary) naturalism -- after Zola who wrote
"naturalism" in his Germinal. The Jungle,
The Octopus, The Financier. There are
also US novels which depict work on the land
and in mines. Hamlin Garland's Main Travelled
Roads, short stories by Stephen Crane and
Jack London. And there are these chapters
in John Caldigate. These chapters constitutre
only the opening phase of the book but Trollope
does describe something of real life of work --
the work which brings in the money which
enables the ladies and gentleman in the great
houses "at the center" (Europe) live such
an elegant life. He also describes the hard
work of sheep farming in Harry Heathcote.
Trollope wrote a series of travel letters to people
in Liverpool urging working class people to emigrate
because they could make more money and
eventually -- even if it would take decades
or more than one generation -- live a much
better life. In this novel and other of his stories
he tells of the hardships involved in colonialism.
Often the story of colonialism is told from the
viewpoint of the elite who took the cream
off the profits; who were officials in high
positions. Here it is told from the point of view
of the worker who moves -- though to be sure
these are two gentlemen disguised as workers.
If there are people on our list who have never
read "Returning Home" I recommend it the
next time you come across a paranoid
diatribe from a postcolonialist standpoint.
Cheers to all, Re: John Caldigate, Ch 12: Mademoiselle Cettini
In his posting on this chapter Sig concludes: "Therefore,
if Mrs. Smith is really Miss Cettini, John should beware
of her, mainly because her name ends with a vowel."
I can't resist saying what a prig of self-conceited
superiority John Caldigate feels like more than
once to this 20th century reader -- especially when
I think of his behavior to Shand's sister, to his
cousin Julia, she of the thick ancles. He is not one of
Trollope's easily likeable male characters.
Ellen Moody
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 I, too, like Mrs. Smith. I think it is in chapter 8 that she makes a
short speech about how limited a woman's options were, and how a man
can recover from a single indiscretion but a woman never can. She
sounded like she was explaining why she had to do what she was about
to do; that is, why it was necessary for her to entrap John Caldigate
into marriage. Her best option to survive in the world was marriage;
however, marriage was not her most desired option.
John Caldigate feels bound by his status as a gentleman. In Ch.
8: "The intercourse between our hero and Mrs. Smith had been such
that, as a gentleman,he could not leave her without some allusion to
future meetings." Then, later, in Chapter 12, John wishes that he
could "... escape honestly from that trouble", the trouble of him
having become engaged to Mrs. Smith. It is only the code of the
gentleman that binds him to Mrs. Smith at this point. The world
would not condemn John if he walked away from Mrs. Smith, indeed,
alot of the world would applaud such an action.
DeeDee
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 Ellen, thank you as always for taking the time to picture in words for
us the illustrations. (And since you mentioned it yourself, I will say
that I got a chuckle from the men around the campfire--good one!)
I don't actually know what the Rip into Hobson's Bay is either. One of
our more nautically inclined listmembers might enlighten it. I think
though that it could refer to the tide. I have heard the phrase rip
tide, along with ebb tide. If this is the case then I can picture the
ship cresting over the tide much as surfers do. How far off is my
guess?
Dagny
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 Angela wrote:
W. Cooke Taylor, writing in "Factories and the Factory System" in 1844 :
"Persons enter a mill, or suppose that they have done so, they see, or
imagine to themselves, the figures of the little piecers and cleaners
employed in their monotonous routine, when the sun is high in heaven...and
they think how much more delightful would have been the gambol of the free
limbs on the hillside, the inhaling of the fresh breeze, the sight of the
green mead, with its spangles of buttercups and daisies, the song of the
bird and the humming of the bee! But they should compare the aspect of the
youthful operatives with other sights which they must have met in the course
of their experience..we have seen children perishing from sheer hunger in
the mud hovel, or in hedge by the way side where a few sods and withered
boughs had formed a hut, compared with which a wigwam were a palace. The
children engaeed in the mills are better paid, and work less.. there are no
tasks imposed on young persons in factories that are anything near so
laborious as hand weeding corn, haymaking, stone picking, potato picking or
bean chopping."
The 1833 Factory Act abolished child labour in factories, but not from work
overseen by parents, such as farm work.
Angela To which I'll add:
There is a great deal of sentimentality about life before
factory work. Of course the deprivation, rigours, and downright
misery of life for the children of agricultural workers
before the industrial revolution doesn't make the lot
of the children Fanny Trollope saw and described in
Michael Armstrong any more justified. It is also
rarely said that the parents of such children were
among those who drove them to work at a young
age. It will be said they were forced to drive their
children; this is probably true. When Dickens
goes into such ecstasies over a goose, and he
has Mrs Cratchit stand breathless lest a pudding
not come out right, he is assuming a subsistence
economy and hard life we know little of in
Western society today. George Clausen's
paintings of children working in the fields
are strikingly poignant; one which is often
reprinted is Bird Scaring. Now and again
as a kind of metaphor Trollope will refer to
stone-breaking as a profession or very ill-paid
remunerative (ha) work, sometimes done
by children. It was Samuel Luke Fildes
who illustrated Edwin Drood and his
Applicants for Admission to a Casual
Ward is worth meditating. The novels we
read on the Net here on this list (and
they talk about on Victoria) are about a
small percentage of people in Victorian
England.
Just a thought: John Caldigate is a kind of
self-made man. Trollope does describe
his work and the characteristics that
helped him succeed: insensitivity,
self-control, determination, wariness
He was also lucky.
Cheers to all, Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 Hello all
I've just been reading a book about Dickens's two sons who emigrated to
Australia: A Tale of Two Brothers: Charles Dickens's Sons in Australia by
Mary Lazarus, and was interested to see that it includes some background
about gold-mining which seems relevant to John Caldigate.
Lazarus writes:
"RH Horne, who had been on the regular staff of the magazine (Household
Words) since its inception, had emigrated to Australia in the middle of 1852
hoping to make his fortune on the diggings. His account of going 'Off to the
Diggings' tells of the horrors of the overcrowded emigrant vessels. Some
years later Charles Dickens wrote a letter to Sir Archibald Michie in
Australia describing this extraordinary man's plan to extract gold.
'You should have seen him as I saw him, when he was inventing an immense
corkscrew with which infallibly to extract gold from any Diggings in those
parts. He had only to find the spot where gold lay hidden; the corkscrew
would then be worked by twelve men shipped to the Antipodes for the purpose,
and after turning to with a will (unless they had run away) and when the
corkscrew bit through, an enormous mass of gold could not choose but to come
up; they would then all fall on their backs, and their fortunes would be
made.'
But, alas for Horne, he made no fortune, though until September 1853 he
continued to send articles to 'Household Words'... 'Digging is so very
arduous and precarious a work,' he wrote, 'that very few excepting labouring
men can continue it profitably - if they fail they can work on the roads, or
at something else... But it is not work for men of education.'
He went on to describe the plight of thousands of people, 'many of them
females and children, daily landing on the wharf, who cannot either for love
or money get places wherein to lay their heads... From every part of the
world as well as from Great Britain, vessels are daily pouring in, filled
with living cargoes to swell the houseless numbers."
Lazarus goes on to describe a huge canvas town set up on the south bank of
the Yarra River, with about 6,000 people living in tents.
She writes: "There is an account in 'Household Words' of a scene on the
Bendigo diggings, of confusion, noise of 'rattling cradles and shouting
voices... elbowing, swearing, hacking, heaving and shovelling' and on a
great space where 'not a tree was left standing... and the sun flamed down
on unsheltered heaps and holes of gravel with a burning sweltering force.'
Though there are stories of extravagant spending, of diggers who struck it
lucky, the point was made more than once that there were better chances of
making money by selling goods to the miners than by joining them."
From this sort of account, it seems as if John, Dick and Mick have good luck
in being able to establish their claim without being pestered by a host of
rival miners - although I suppose Trollope's novel is set at a slightly
later date than these accounts, when the gold fever would have been dying
down.
There are also a few interesting passages about Trollope and his son
Frederic in the Mary Lazarus book, so I'll look those bits out and write
another posting in the next day or two.
Bye for now Now I add from the earlier read of John Caldigate in 1997; these postings are on
Chapters 1 - 10:
From: "Imme Mallin" Ships used to have first class, second class and steerage. The latter had
no individual cabins and few facilities. Passengers had to provide their
own food. Most Irish emigrating during the Famine and afterwards to the USA
came this way. The lack of hygiene and sustenance led to frequent outbreaks
of contagious diseases, which necessitated the quarantining of arriving
immigrants.
Recent research seems to confirm what mothers have known for centuries -
boy children need to be socialized, most easily by contact with nice girls
and women. AT stresses in The Small House, talking of John Eames, that therefore
mothers should see to it that their sons have the company of nice girls.
John Eames is socialized by contact with Lord de Guest and his sister
Julia.
Now John Caldigate has no female relations - except the horsey, asinine
Babington cousins- and is not subjected to any structured socializing, yet
he is in no way awkward or shy with girls. In fact, his problem is the
opposite, he falls for every skirt in sight, in the first 8 chapters he
gets engaged 3 times (well, Maria Shand probably isn't quite an engagement)
and dreams about the one girl he can't get easy access to, Hester Bolton.
Particularly on board ship he hurls himself into an affair with a dubious
lady, an affair that spells danger from the start, and he is completely
aware of that, yet continues and intensifies it, and simultanously dreams
about the inaccessible Hester. He is like a moth flying to every flame, yet
we are supposed to think he is so much more careful and sensible than his
friend Dick. What is wrong with the fellow?
Imme Mallin
From: WZWH14A@prodigy.com ( SUZANNE R SHUMWAY) After months of lurking, I've finally been able to join you
Trollopians in your reading cycle. So, like Ellen and Imme, I'm too
excited about JC to wait for Sunday to post a question.
In the chapter called "Mrs. Smith," Mrs. Smith talks to John C. about
the state of women.She mentions that there are people who are
"tabooed." Then she asks whether John C. has a mother,sister or
housemaid., and mentions the expectation that the sister should have
a follower (aspiring lover?), while the housemaid should not.
Then Caldigate asks (rightly, as we are all perhaps exasperated by
Mrs. Smith's mystery),
"Not exactly. But at present;--if I say my outward woman you'llknow
what I mean perhaps."
"I think I shall."
"Well; my present outward woman stands to me in liewu of the
housemaid's broom, and the united authority of the Captain and Mrs.
Crompton make up the mistress between them...." Can someone please explain to me what Mrs. Smith means when she
refers to "her present outward woman"? I confess that, unlike John
Caldigate, I haven't a clue.
Thanks for your indulgence,
Suzanne Rosenthal Shumway
From: Pourover@aol.com John Caldigate's shipboard friendship with Euphemia Smith was narrated in a
non-committal style that makes me wonder if I'm hearing a major chord or a
minor. Experience with our author has taught me which it's likely to be, but
I enjoy the present ambivalence just the same. Trollope ejaculates upon the
foolishness of John's attachment, but he presents Mrs. Smith so alluringly
that the reader is hard pressed to feel any differently.
Ambivalence is also the keynote of the first visit to the Shands at
Pollington. They're irresponsible people, but they're friendly, and
everything's hunkey-dorey - is Trollope going to get laid back on us?
Since we have been promised 'crushing troubles' by the very first paragraph
we are not unduly beguiled by these complaisant pleasures. But Trollope is
playing his cards close to the vest.
RJ Keefe
Like RJ, I'm tantalized by those conversations on board ship that Trollope
chooses NOT to report.
Tiny bombshells are dropped--it turns out at some point that John has
learned Mrs. Smith's first name, and her former occupation. But we
never "witnessed" those conversations. Trollope doesn't usually keep
such secrets from his readers. What's up?
Has it struck anyone else as extraordinary that the Cromptons let their
children travel second class while they themselves travel first? Obviously
Mrs. Smith is not entrusted with the care of the children, otherwise she
would not have so much free time. One must assume that there are more than
three children, the remaining ones sleeping with the nurse or nanny in
another (second class?) cabin. Of course for the parents it would have been
quite handy, firstclass passengers had the run of the ship, so they could
visit their children whenever they felt like it, but the children, being
second class, could not pester them in first class. I wonder was that
arrangement frequent? Since AT does not make any snide remark about it, it
looks as if he took it for granted.
Imme Mallin
Subject: John Caldigate, Chs 1-8: Daniel Caldigate The way Trollope presents the story, it seems obvious to me that
Daniel Caldigate is a very cold unloving father who bears the main
responsibility for John's exodus from England. In my eyes, John is a
wonderful person with great room for development. His only defects
are his financial losses at college and his easy attraction to women.
The first is very reminiscent of AT himself as a young man. But I
can't find any excuses for Daniel and I just hope that he won't hand
over the property to John's cousin. Someone talked earlier about how
AT handles children and it seems to me that John is still a child in
that he is yet untried in the real world. But the fact that women are
so attracted to him bodes well for his future success. My reactions
to Mrs. Smith are not exactly what AT's contemporaries probably felt.
I find her absolutely fascinating esp. the fact that she's an
actress. And I love the whole shipboard episode and will shortly read
the short story Ellen mentions.
Marian Poller@netvision.net.il
Is he unloving, or does he have trouble showing his love? He lost his
two girls and his wife not very long ago (John was 15). He may withold
affection as a result -- his coldness strikes me as a protective device.
John got himself in a scrape and determined to buy his way out. His
ambition made it impossible for him to live idly with his father. He
thought that he despised Folking. He could have had other alternatives
if he had so desired. Going to Australia, if it is anyone's
responsibility (with an implication of fault), is at least as much
John's as Daniel's.
I love the way Trollope handles the mutual reticence of the father and
the son. There relationship is founded on a misunderstanding. Each
puts more blame on himself than he deserves, and as a result cannot
break the ice with the other.
Duffy
She's told him that she is not worthy of his attentions. She gave him
an easy out by going her own way and leaving it up to him whether he
should visit her or not. He visits her, and she supposes that he wants
to be engaged and is grateful.
Where is her dishonesty? Suppose she were Miss Smith and not Mrs.
Smith. Suppose there was not the suggestion of rumour about her.
Wouldn't Caldigate appear as a scoundrel and Miss Smith be badly used by
him?
At this point Trollope has not told us anything about her that makes her
unworthy. Caldigate knows nothing against her. There is nothing to
justify his treatment of her based on what he does know about her.
Isn't that what should count?
If it turns out that all the rumours (whatever they might be) are false,
and that the entire world has badly used her, then Caldigate will look
like a scoundrel for deserting her. Even if it turns out later that she
had been one of the leading prostitutes in Birmingham and aborted and
eaten a child. should that make a difference for judging his actions.
Finally, he prefers Hester whom he has seen once. It strikes me he does
not want a wife who will be a good companion (as Mrs. Smith has proved
herself to be). Rather, he wants the image of a wife -- and Hester,
about whom he knows nothing, seems perfectly to fit this bill.
Duffy
From: WZWH14A@prodigy.com ( SUZANNE R SHUMWAY) I think I agree with Duffy Pratt about Caldigate's treatment of Mrs.
Smith. He is, after all, the one who crosses the line; it is
Caldigate alone, by himself, who gets himself into trouble with Mrs.
Smith, just as he alone is responsible for his involvement with Davis.
I look forward to finding out what happened between them during the
interlude that was passed over.
From: Anthony Monta Greetings to all from a lurker. I hate to jump into spotlights, but I
spent an hour or so this beautiful summer afternoon reading the first 8
chapters of JC in my vegetable garden and I just love it. I was
especially delighted with Mrs. Smith because she reminds me of some clever,
splendid women I'd met in novels by Wilkie Collins. The burning question
for me at the end of chapter 8, among others, was: will Trollope be able to
imagine a satisfactory marriage for this woman?
But I am really writing to respond to RJ Keefe's recent question about JC's
loitering with Mrs. Smith and Arthur Middleton's even more recent reply:
"Even Victorians had urges!"
Of course they did, but surely Mrs. Smith has more going for her than sex
appeal. She has more going for her to JC than her "mysterious" past. She
even has more than the added pathos of being a Vulnerable Female, which
even JC sees to some extent as a potential ruse and danger. Mrs. Smith has
all these things, but she also has an ability to make what Ellen has called
"dramatic irony" a real experience for JC. That's what I thought JC really
admired about her: she cuts through the classist rind, and he enjoys
sharing her view of things. (I certainly did!)
Does anyone else think that this latter attraction has something to do with
JC's wanting to control, to affront, his destiny at this poitn? Mrs.
Smith's intimacy allows him to feel that he shares her position above and
outside high society, which helps to reinforce his feeling greater disgust
for Dick and spurs his second thoughts about his mooning after Hester
Burton. There's something of the good salty air of sheer candor, a real
modernity, in Mrs. Smith's conversation. John wants to mature and make his
way in the world -- what could be more attractive to him than to ally
himself with such a lovely Voice of Experience? Trollope is showing him to
be maturing, so I'm inclined to forgive him this romanticism... At least
it's a step beyond the embarrassing lollings of a Dickens hero.
Anthony Monta From: "HILTON OR JUNE W. SIEGEL" It took me a long time to read the first installment for a variety of
reasons that have nothing to do with the book, and I've finally caught up with
the week's postings also. Perhaps because I read so quickly and so late,
I have let too many things go by, but my impression of all of the character
s so far is that they are almost all contradictory, and far from simple to pin
down.
The comments from the group on Mrs. Smith show divided opinion about
her, and I think that that is probably what Trollope intended: to show people
who are confounding, who no sooner go one way, then they turn and go another
way altogether. Jan Reber's post today is very convincing and shows a clear line
of evidence for a reading of Mrs. Smith as unsavory. Yet she is pleasant and
clever and full of wit --- at times almost like one of Shakespeare's heroines,
capable of assessing a situation and acting in her own best interests. Nor is
she intended necessarily to be a siren, luring our John onto the rocks:
instead, she's a person, neither pure nor simple, with an agenda of her o
wn.
We see the same in John, in his father, in the array of relatives, in
Shand, in Shand's family. The only unqualified character is Hester Bolton
whose description (16-17) is luminous (Trollope may not mention children often, but he shows
here, as elsewhere, very tender feeling for young girls)
but whatever light she sheds is soon dimmed -- perhaps only temporarily as our
hero's head continues to be turned over and over and over again, making this
novel rich with comic possibilities.
The world of the ship is the reverse of the world where, for the time of
the voyage, all rules are suspended, as the three failed attempts to invoke
them show. The ship they are on seems at times to be a kind of ship of fools
and John's character and his circumstances in life leave him trailing
engagements and near-engagements and wished-for engagements which perhaps keep
him and us from remembering how untethered he really is.
In that sense, perhaps this will turn out to be one of those novels
where the hero has to reinvent things, or at least to start over again, like
Robinson Crusoe or Lord of the Flies. Heroes in that position, usually
find,
however, that it's never enough, having made a mess in one place, simply to
move on to a new place as the propensity for making messes tends to get packed
along with the rest of the baggage.
Subject: Re: Mrs. Smith
This argument makes very selective use of quoting to give a distorted
picture of the relationship between Caldigate and the fair Mrs. Smith
Trollope makes this comment after Mrs. Smith observes that Shand and
Caldigate are "making a delightful experiment in roughing it, -- as
people eat picnic dinners out in the woods occaisonally." It has
nothing to do with the context you put it into.
Shand is the one who first said he would like to unravel Mrs. Smiths
mystery, when he first talked about her to Caldigate. After one
conversation with her, Trollope notes: "Dick had professed his intention
of unraveling the mystery, but Caldigate almost thought that he would
like to unravel it himself."
If she had been more successful in unravelling Shand's mystery, might
that not be because there is not much depth to Shand? OTOH, the
unravelling business is something that Shand and Caldigate set out to
do.
This is not true. When Caldigate inquires about her aboard ship, his
woman informant tells him that Mrs Smith "had seen better days, ,,, and
that she was now going out to the colony, probably, -- so the old lady
said who was the informant, -- in search of a sacond husband." This
suggestion that Mrs. Smith is looking to remarry occurs before their is
any relationship between her and Caldigate. But in their very first
conversation, Mrs. Smith talks about how wonderful it is to have your
dinners pre-arranged for you. Caldigate knew beforehand that this was
likely a woman who was interested in marriage for mercenary reasons, and
he allows himself to take advantage of Mrs. Smith's weakness.
After the night of the ball, Shand says to Caldigate: "You are much more
likely to make her Mrs. Caldigate." That night he reflects on the women
he has come to admire, and the merits and marriagability of Mrs. Smith.
The possibility of marriage is directly put to Caldigate from the
outset.
The next morning, Caldigate has a conversation with the captain in which
he understands that the captain is warning him against keeping company
with Mrs. Smith. He does not heed the warning.
Do you think here, as you've said before, that she is being dishonest?
Has she not given John more than ample warning about what she is doing.
Yet, he keeps coming back. He comes back in spite of the warnings given
him by his first informant, Shand, the captain, and Mrs. Smith herself.
Caldigate justifies himself to Shand: "Here I am with nothing special to
do and I like to amuse myself."
Mrs. Smith develops the relationship with John by isolating the two
of them from everyone else on board.
Trollope seems to indicate that Caldigate has done the isolating:
"Caldigate had driven off his persecuters valiantly, and had taught them
all to htink that he was resolute in his purposes towards Mrs. Smith
(The reader may wonder if Mrs. Smith knew what her occupation
would be while still onboard and if this is one of the many aspects of her
life that she has hidden from the man she has seduced.)
If the reader wonders this, it comes from not reading very closely: "He
did in fact know nothing about her but what she told herself, and this
amounted to little more than three statements, which might or might not
by true, -- that she had gone on the stage in opposition to her friends,
-- that she had married an actor, who had treated her with great
cruelty, -- and that he had died of drink."
She probably did know that she would return to the stage (if she needed
to). She certainly told Caldigate that she had been an actress.
When John visits Mrs. Smith in Sydney, her first inquiry is about
gold, and she is careful to maintain a pose:
She throws herself into his arms, declaring "So you have come! Oh, ny
darling, Oh, my love." We get this reaction before she has any idea
whether he has been successful."
She is clever enough because she wants to marry him. What is wrong with
this?
To: trollope@world.std.com Duffy Pratt's posting today on Mrs. Smith requires me to distinguish between
'dishonesty' and 'maneuvering.' If flirting were dishonest, we would all be
scoundrels. The net effect of Mrs. Smith's 'maneuvers' is that she makes
herself very attractive to John Caldigate. She appeals to erotic
sensibilities, of course, but she also appeals to something burgeoning in
him, something that I don't think Trollope fully examines. Anthony Monta's
posting points to what's new in John Caldigate.
Is John Caldigate going to make a new life out in Australia, or isn't he? Is
he putting Folking and England behind him, or isn't he? He hasn't decided. He
will let his fortune do the deciding. For the moment (aboard ship), he plays
two games at the same time, a classic - perhaps *the* classic - Trollope
posture for a hero. On the one hand he pines after an ideal Hester. He
doesn't spend a lot of time on this, I don't think, because as Trollope says
somewhat later, there's no point in building castles in Spain if they don't
even have imaginary foundations. On the other hand, John Caldigate is setting
out for a new life in a new world - a world in which, as Trollope makes clear
in a handful of chapters, no Trollope novel could ever be set. ('The Vicar of
Nobble' - just imagine!)
Mrs. Smith appeals to the 'new life' side of John Caldigate's outlook. Duffy
says that nothing is known against her. I think the point is rather that
nothing is known *about* her - except that she 'scandalizes' Mrs. Crompton,
who's in a position to know a thing or two. In the world of
Trollopian/Victorian respectability (Trollope really does make this clear),
truly nice people have credentials to that effect. They have letters of
recommendation (real or figurative). One knows where they were born, who
their parents were, and all the rest. Insofar as one doesn't know, one
assumes, if not the worst, then the least. It is ever thus in *socially*
upwardly-mobile societies.
John Caldigate is thinking of leaving the world of respectability behind,
forever. On ship, that is, before he's actually seen Australia. In the new
world, men and women can be friends without a lot of tutting. But John is not
as advanced as he thinks he is. At the key moment in Mrs. Smith's
'maneuvers,' John can't help acting like the gentleman he was brought up to
be - even if this gentlemanly behavior is not, au fond, truly gentlemanly.
RJ Keefe
From: "Robert Wright" So far we have seemed to concentrate on the extent to which Mrs Smith =
has lured John Caldigate into her power, a beautiful though faded flower =
with a powerful sexual attraction, whose ultimate goal is entrapment and =
eventual disgrace to our hero.
We are first introduced to Mrs Smith with the words:
Trollope goes on to make us aware of the fact that Mrs Smith is not
quite all she should be. What indeed was wrong with her, and why are we
to believe she represented such a threat to Caldigate that even a paid
employee of the shipping company, the captain, should feel it necessary
to take time out to warn Caldigate of the fact he was about to disgrace
himself.
The reasons are not persuasive ones.
2. She was travelling second class. She was not rich, and tells Dick she
is going out to earn her bread.
3. She has been married, and although initially under the protection of
the Compton family seemed not to have made a successful marriage.
4. She is good looking, and even in her ragged old hat and shoes not fit
to be seen in, is prepared to approach two batchelor gentlemen and flirt
with them.
5. She makes no attempt to be respectable. She does not put herself
under the protection of another lady or gentleman, for example a sister
a mother, or even a house maid.
6. There is a mystery about her which she almost seems to foster. She is
clearly intelligent and well spoken, no longer a lady but having been
one. All these explanations can of course equally be applied to Caldigate and
Shand. They themselves are not well dressed, deciding to appear as
miners. They travel second class, and are not rich. They are going to
earn their own bread, and are prepared to flirt with Mrs Smith.
They are evidently well educated and perceived to be gentlemen even
though their appearance clearly differs from what might be acceptable.
There is also a mystery about them, which they do not seek to explain to
other passengers.
Of course, a woman must take more care to be respectable than a man. The
ladies in first class were quite ready to approach Caldigate, who was a
handsome well mannered young man, and a gentleman. All the ladies in
first class knew very well who he was, and some had spoken to him. They
believed both men to be possessed of considerable means, and I suggest
this was the reason why they became jealous of Mrs Smith, and found it a
thing horrible to all of them that Caldigate should allow himself to be
enticed into difficulties by such a creature as that Mrs Smith.
Euphemia is a character well drawn, but are we expected to believe that
the thing became so serious that the captain was prepared to stick his
neck out and become involved. It does not ring true, and reading John
Caldigate for the second time in the last year, I find myself less at
ease with some of the details of the story than I am entitled to be.
Granted it is quite a good yarn, and the descriptions of mining
operations in the colony of Australia make the book worthwhile as a pot
boiler, suitable to be read on the train to work. But am I being unfair
to Trollope? Why for example is Caldigate so ready to entrap himself,
almost knowing what is about to happen at the close of the voyage on the
Goldfinder? He already suspects he loves Hester Bolton. He knows what
are the risks. Yet he seems so weak minded that with no real
encouragement whatsoever apart from an attractive and mysterious woman,
he seems prepared like a lemming to leap into the void and knowingly
cause himself embarrassment and difficulty.
If I were to be uncharitable, I might almost guess the writer has made
him act in this way merely for the purposes of the plot. But if this is
so, having drawn Caldigate's character as a fairly strong and determined
one, he might have given us a more persuasive account of why Mrs Smith
was able to entrap him so easily, if indeed any entrapment took place at
all.
Robert J Wright He should consider himself engaged to Julia Babington. He kissed Maria
Shand, and she might consider this to mean something, but he does not.
He has managed to escape these entanglements by leaving. Leaving should
also be a convenient out for his entanglement with Mrs. Smith. The
mines were not far enough from Sydney, but he might think that England
will be.
So, my answer to your question: Experience has wrongly taught him that
he can get away with this kind of behavior.
Duffy
He thinks that Mrs. Smith is seedy, shabby, crass, tranistory, and
unsavory. I disagree. She may turn out to be all of these things, but
I don't think she has fully revealed herself to be so bad as yet.
He thinks that JC is weak and that Mrs. Smith is taking advantage of
him. I agree to some extent. I don't think her taking advantage
forecloses the possibility of her feeling a genuine affection for him.
She clearly had the choice between JC and Shand. She prefers JC, though
his future prospects (pun intended) are really no different than Shands.
She has hidden much about her past, but has been entirely
straightforward about both her present position and her intentions. If
she is a golddigger, does that make her any different than JC? She has
to earn her living on her own -- what respectable options were available
to women in that day??? I suppose she should have resigned herself to
being a governess or a paid companion, if she had the credentials.
Caldigate, in his weakness, says that he likes to amuse himself with
Mrs. Smith. He knows the dangers, everyone tells him what she is doing,
including herself. He is taking advantage of her just as much as she is
taking advantage of him. Shouldn't true love work to the mutual
advantage of the lovers? ;-)
Duffy
Re: The Vampirish Female and Colonel Osborne
"Mrs. Smith," the heartbreaker/homebreaker, has a parallel in a previous
volume: Colonel Osborne in He Knew He Was Right. Both characters
tread the outer limits of sexual discretion for specific reasons; and
although those reasons are not identical, the two players coincide in
the impact they have on their targets.
I just went back through some of the old discussions to see how Osborne
was handled. It's interesting to me to note that the tone of moral
disapproval directed toward Mrs. Smith is not found in the discussions
of Osborne. A while back, mention was made of the "conventions" through
which we view text and how those conventions filter that view of texts
from the past. One convention that has survived almost intact from
Trollope's time is a fascinated repulsion toward the vampish female.
While the discussions of Osborne centered almost entirely on his effects
on the characters around him, the discussion of Mrs. Smith centers on
her character. Yet, the predatory Osborne was at least as well-drawn a
character as Caldigate's frankly predatory shipmate.
I am always interested in the motivations which determine our views of
individuals. In the modern state, we seem to find necessary a
categorization of individual characters that was perhaps not needed nor
known in times past. One of the main characteristics of Trollope's
studies of characters is an emotional distance that allows him to
maintain a benificent view even of those whom he does not particularly
as a lack of passion. But the keen insight that cannot be escaped in
Trollope's work is that unliked and/or unlikeable individuals are still
human beings. Trollope is determinedly honest with himself in this
regard.
A single fact, a single incident, can change our view, our self-defined
"understanding" of a person's character in quite remarkable ways. Yet
we are not often brought to caution by this realization, but rather are
prone to carrying on in the same old patterns.
Michael Powe If we can discern something of the author's intention, perhaps we will be
coming closer to what it is we are trying to have an experience of.
June
"I am unfamiliar with AT's journey(s) in Australia, but have studied his novel "John
Caldigate" a few times. Recently, I searched the text for clues as to the location of Nobble and
Ahalala, and am reasonably certain they are in a small triangle of country NSW bounded by
Murrumburra, Boorowa and Young, part of an extensive gold-mining territory last
Century."
"This caused me to ask myself why AT would have Caldigate disembark in
Melbourne from the vessel that continued to Sydney with Mrs Smith, only to have the hero travel
two-thirds the land distance toward Sydney to reach Nobble rather than travelling more swiftly
and directly from Sydney, especially when Caldigate was single-minded as to his. I had
considered this aspect of the story to be somewhat incongruous, in a novel where the Australian
angle seemed forced anyway, to as to set up the novel's ultimate development."
Reply-To: trollope-l@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [trollope-l] John Caldigate: Pictures of 19th Gold Mining in New South
Wales
Reply-To: trollope-l@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [trollope-l] Gold mining
Reply-To: trollope-l@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [trollope-l] JC - Mrs Smith & gold
Reply-To: trollope-l@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [trollope-l] Gold Mining
Reply-To: trollope-l@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [trollope-l] John Caldigate: Mrs. Smith
Reply-To: trollope-l@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [trollope-l] SS Great Britain
"The SS Great Britain never made any money for
the men who built her, despite contributing greatly
to the social, economic and engineering
dominance of Great Britain in the nineteenth century.
A man brought up among soft things is so imbued
with the feeling that his wife should be something
better, cleaner, sweeter, holier than himself, that
he could not but be awestruck when he thought
that he was bound to marry this all but nameless
widow of some drunken player -- this woman who,
among other women, had been thought unfit for
all companionship (Folio Society John Caldigate,
Ch 8, p. 59).
Ellen Moody
Reply-To: trollope-l@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [trollope-l] Mrs. Smith
Ellen Moody
Reply-To: trollope-l@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [trollope-l] John Caldigate: Mrs. Smith
Reply-To: trollope-l@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [trollope-l] John Caldigate Illustrations
Reply-To: trollope-l@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [trollope-l] Work in Victorian England -- and Victorian Novels
I'm reading about Victorian artists who concentrated on rural gardens and
came across this quote about child labour. It fits in with the scene where
Higgins discusses agricultural work and confirms Thornton in his view that
some of the centralised legislation is anti-industry.
Ellen Moody
Reply-To: trollope-l@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [trollope-l] Australian gold-mining
Judy Geater
To: "trollope"
Subject: Third class(?)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997
To: trollope@world.std.com
Subject: What is wrong with that fellow?
"But what does all this mean? You are not a housemaid, and you have
not got a mistress?"
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997
To: trollope@world.std.com
Subject: JC: Shipboard Romance
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997
To: trollope@world.std.com
Subject: Mrs Smith
Madison, WI USA
To: TROLLOPE READING GROUP
Subject: Mrs Smith
To: "Trollope Reading List"
Subject: What's wrong with Euphemia?
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997
" Have you observed that woman in the brown straw hat?" Dick said to
Caldigate, one morning, as they were leaning together on the forepart of
the vessel against one of the pens in which the fowls were kept."
1. Mrs Smith was not well dressed. The straw hat was old and battered.
Her gown was poor.
Kensington London England
wright@dircon.co.uk
looie@europa.com
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